49 Elizabeth II, A.D. 2000, Canada

Journals of the Senate

2nd Session, 36th Parliament

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Issue 52

Thursday, May 4, 2000
2:00 p.m.

The Honourable Rose-Marie Losier-Cool, Speaker pro tempore

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The Members convened were:

The Honourable Senators

Adams, Andreychuk, Atkins, Austin, Bacon, Banks, Beaudoin, Bolduc, Boudreau, Bryden, Buchanan, Callbeck, Carstairs, Chalifoux, Christensen, Cochrane, Cogger, Comeau, Cook, Cools, Corbin, De Bané, DeWare, Di Nino, Doody, Eyton, Fairbairn, Finnerty, Fitzpatrick, Forrestall, Fraser, Furey, Gauthier, Gill, Grafstein, Graham, Grimard, Gustafson, Hays, Hervieux-Payette, Johnson, Joyal, Kelleher, Kelly, Kenny, Keon, Kinsella, Kirby, Kolber, Kroft, LeBreton, Losier-Cool, Lynch-Staunton, Maheu, Mahovlich, Meighen, Mercier, Milne, Moore, Murray, Nolin, Oliver, Pearson, Pépin, Perry (Poirier), Poulin (Charette), Roberge, Robichaud, (L'Acadie-Acadia), Robichaud, (Saint-Louis-de-Kent), Rompkey, Rossiter, Ruck, Sibbeston, Simard, Sparrow, Spivak, Stollery, Tkachuk, Watt, Wiebe, Wilson

The Members in attendance to business were:

The Honourable Senators

Adams, Andreychuk, *Angus, Atkins, Austin, Bacon, Banks, Beaudoin, Bolduc, Boudreau, Bryden, Buchanan, Callbeck, Carstairs, Chalifoux, Christensen, Cochrane, Cogger, Comeau, Cook, Cools, Corbin, De Bané, DeWare, Di Nino, Doody, Eyton, Fairbairn, *Finestone, Finnerty, Fitzpatrick, Forrestall, Fraser, Furey, Gauthier, Gill, Grafstein, Graham, Grimard, Gustafson, Hays, Hervieux-Payette, Johnson, Joyal, Kelleher, Kelly, Kenny, Keon, Kinsella, Kirby, Kolber, Kroft, LeBreton, Losier-Cool, Lynch-Staunton, Maheu, Mahovlich, Meighen, Mercier, Milne, Moore, Murray, Nolin, Oliver, Pearson, Pépin, Perry (Poirier), Poulin (Charette), *Prud'homme, *Rivest, Roberge, Robichaud, (L'Acadie-Acadia), Robichaud, (Saint-Louis-de-Kent), Rompkey, Rossiter, Ruck, Sibbeston, Simard, Sparrow, Spivak, Stollery, *Stratton, *Taylor, Tkachuk, Watt, Wiebe, Wilson, ,

PRAYERS

SENATORS' STATEMENTS

Some Honourable Senators made statements.

DAILY ROUTINE OF BUSINESS

Presentation of Reports from Standing or Special Committees

The Honourable Senator Stollery, Chair of the Standing Senate Committee on Foreign Affairs, presented its Eighth Report (Bill S-18, An Act to amend the National Defence Act (non-deployment of persons under the age of eighteen years to theatres of hostilities)) without amendment.

The Honourable Senator Stollery moved, seconded by the Honourable Senator Mercier, that the Bill be placed on the Orders of the Day for a third reading at the next sitting.

The question being put on the motion, it was adopted. The Honourable Senator Murray, P.C., Chair of the Standing Senate Committee on National Finance, presented its Sixth Report (Bill C-10, An Act to amend the Municipal Grants Act) without amendment.

The Honourable Senator Hays moved, seconded by the Honourable Senator Fairbairn, P.C., that the Bill be placed on the Orders of the Day for a third reading at the next sitting.

The question being put on the motion, it was adopted.

Tabling of Reports from Inter-Parliamentary Delegations

The Honourable Senator De Bané, P.C., tabled the following:

Report of the Canadian Branch of the Assemblée parlementaire de la Francophonie, respecting its participation at the Meeting of the APF Committee on Education, Communication and Cultural Affairs, held in Libreville, Gabon, on March 6 and 7, 2000.-Sessional Paper No. 2/36-346.

ANSWERS TO WRITTEN QUESTIONS

Pursuant to Rule 25(2), the Honourable Senator Hays tabled the following:

Reply to Question No. 1, dated February 16, 2000, appearing on the Order Paper in the name of the Honourable Senator LeBreton, respecting the Department of Human Resources Development grants-10642 Newfoundland Limited. -Sessional Paper No. 2/36-347S.

Reply to Question No. 2, dated February 16, 2000, appearing on the Order Paper in the name of the Honourable Senator LeBreton, respecting the Department of Human Resources Development grants-company 9057-5093.-Sessional Paper No. 2/36-348S.

Reply to Question No. 3, dated February 16, 2000, appearing on the Order Paper in the name of the Honourable Senator LeBreton, respecting the Department of Human Resources Development grants-company 904-30042.-Sessional Paper No. 2/36-349S.

Reply to Question No. 4, dated February 16, 2000, appearing on the Order Paper in the name of the Honourable Senator LeBreton, respecting the Department of Human Resources Development grants-3393062 Canada Inc.-Sessional Paper No. 2/36-350S.

Reply to Question No. 5, dated February 16, 2000, appearing on the Order Paper in the name of the Honourable Senator LeBreton, respecting the Department of Human Resources Development grants-9069-1049 Québec Inc.-Sessional Paper No. 2/36-351S.

Reply to Question No. 6, dated February 16, 2000, appearing on the Order Paper in the name of the Honourable Senator LeBreton, respecting the Department of Human Resources Development grants-9037-1956 Québec Inc.-Sessional Paper No. 2/36-352S.

Reply to Question No. 7, dated February 16, 2000, appearing on the Order Paper in the name of the Honourable Senator LeBreton, respecting the Department of Human Resources Development grants-3458121 Canada Inc.-Sessional Paper No. 2/36-353S.

Reply to Question No. 8, dated February 16, 2000, appearing on the Order Paper in the name of the Honourable Senator LeBreton, respecting the Department of Human Resources Development grants-142968 Canada Ltée.-Sessional Paper No. 2/36-354S.

Reply to Question No. 9, dated February 22, 2000, appearing on the Order Paper in the name of the Honourable Senator LeBreton, respecting the trip by Minister Sheila Copps to St. John's, Newfoundland.-Sessional Paper No. 2/36-355S.

Reply to Question No. 10, dated March 2, 2000, appearing on the Order Paper in the name of the Honourable Senator LeBreton, respecting the NCC publication A Place for Canadians, A Story of the National Capital Commission. -Sessional Paper No. 2/36-356S.

ORDERS OF THE DAY

GOVERNMENT BUSINESS

Bills

Resuming debate on the motion of the Honourable Senator Hays, seconded by the Honourable Senator Moore, for the third reading of Bill C-2, An Act respecting the election of members to the House of Commons, repealing other Acts relating to elections and making consequential amendments to other Acts.

After debate, In amendment, the Honourable Senator Oliver moved, seconded by the Honourable Senator Murray, P.C., that the Bill be not now read a third time but that it be amended, in Clause 350, on page 144, by replacing line 6 with the following:

"(2) Not more than $4,000 of the total".

After debate, The Honourable Senator Atkins moved, seconded by the Honourable Senator DeWare, that further debate on the motion in amendment be adjourned until the next sitting.

The question being put on the motion, it was adopted. Order No. 2 was called and postponed until the next sitting. Resuming debate on the motion of the Honourable Senator Boudreau, P.C., seconded by the Honourable Senator Hays, for the second reading of Bill C-20, An Act to give effect to the requirement for clarity as set out in the opinion of the Supreme Court of Canada in the Quebec Secession Reference.

After debate, The Honourable Senator Kinsella for the Honourable Senator Pitfield, P.C., moved, seconded by the Honourable Senator Tkachuk, that further debate on the motion be adjourned until the next sitting.

The question being put on the motion, it was adopted.

Motions

The Honourable Senator Hays moved, seconded by the Honourable Senator Robichaud, P.C. (L'Acadie-Acadia):

That a special committee of the Senate be appointed to consider, after second reading, the Bill C-20, An Act to give effect to the requirement for clarity as set out in the opinion of the Supreme Court of Canada in the Quebec Secession Reference;

That, notwithstanding Rule 85 (1)(b), the committee be comprised of fifteen members, including:

Senator Joan Fraser Senator Céline Hervieux-Payette, P.C. Senator Colin Kenny Senator Marie P. Poulin (Charette) Senator George Furey Senator Richard Kroft Senator Thel ma Chalifoux Senator Lorna Milne Senator Aurélien Gill;

That four members constitute a quorum;

That the committee have power to send for persons, papers and records, to examine witnesses, and to print such papers and evidence from day to day as may be ordered by the committee;

That the committee be authorized to permit coverage by electronic media of its public proceedings with the least possible disruption of its hearings; and

That the committee have power to retain the services of professional, clerical, stenographic and such other staff as deemed advisable by the committee.

A point of order was raised as to the acceptability of the motion.

After debate, The Speaker pro tempore reserved her decision.

OTHER BUSINESS

Senate Public Bills

Order No. 1 was called and postponed until the next sitting. Resuming debate on the motion of the Honourable Senator Cools, seconded by the Honourable Senator Milne, for the second reading of Bill S-9, An Act to amend the Criminal Code (abuse of process).

After debate, The question being put on the motion, it was adopted.

The Bill was then read the second time.

The Honourable Senator Cools moved, seconded by the Honourable Senator Robichaud, P.C. (Saint-Louis-de-Kent), that the Bill be referred to the Standing Senate Committee on Legal and Constitutional Affairs.

The question being put on the motion, it was adopted. Orders No. 3 to 5 were called and postponed until the next sitting. Resuming debate on the motion of the Honourable Senator Milne, seconded by the Honourable Senator Chalifoux, for the second reading of Bill S-15, An Act to amend the Statistics Act and the National Archives of Canada Act (census records).

After debate, The Honourable Senator Kinsella for the Honourable Senator Johnson moved, seconded by the Honourable Senator Atkins, that further debate on the motion be adjourned until the next sitting.

The question being put on the motion, it was adopted. Orders No. 7 and 8 were called and postponed until the next sitting. Order No. 9 (Bill S-8) was called and pursuant to Rule 27(3) was dropped from the Order Paper.

Commons Public Bills

Orders No. 1 and 2 were called and postponed until the next sitting.

Reports of Committees

Orders No. 1 to 6 were called and postponed until the next sitting.

Other

Orders No. 21, 14, 17 (inquiries), 7 (motion), 6, 19, 12, 9, 18, 16 and 13 (inquiries) were called and postponed until the next sitting.

QUESTION OF PRIVILEGE

Pursuant to Rule 43(8), the Senate proceeded to the consideration of the question of privilege, of which the Honourable Senator Tkachuk gave notice yesterday, concerning the unauthorized release of the Fifth Report of the Standing Senate Committee on Banking, Trade and Commerce in the National Post of May 3, 2000.

Debate.

With leave of the Senate, The Honourable Senator Tkachuk tabled the following:

Article published in the National Post on May 3, 2000, concerning the Fifth Report of the Standing Senate Committee on Banking, Trade and Commerce (English text).-Sessional Paper No. 2/36-357S.

SPEAKER'S RULING

Yesterday, when we reached Orders of the Day, Senator Tkachuk obtained leave to raise a question of privilege under rule 43 even though he had not met the requirement of providing written notice to the Clerk within the prescribed time prior to the Senate sitting. Senator Tkachuk's question of privilege concerned the publication of information based on the Fifth Report of the Standing Committee on Banking Trade and Commerce. This information appeared in a newspaper yesterday before the report was tabled in the Senate. In fact, according to the Senator, the Committee decided to rush the tabling of the report as a consequence of the newspaper story.

Senator Austin then made some comments about the case. He noted that the journalist himself acknowledged that the report had not yet been submitted to the Senate. Citing 877(1) of Beauchesne's Parliamentary Rules & Forms, 6th edition at pages 240-241, the Senator expressed the belief that the circumstances of the case clearly demonstrate that there is a prima facie breach of privilege. Shortly thereafter, discussion on this matter was halted when Senator Lynch-Staunton correctly pointed out that any review of the prima facie merits of the case should be postponed until after the Orders of the Day have been disposed of.

Today, additional arguments have been made. I want to thank all Honourable Senators who participated in the discussion. I have reflected on the recent rulings of the Speaker and the views expressed yesterday and today. I am prepared to make my ruling.

My obligation as the Speaker pro tempore is to consider only whether the evidence presented suggests that a breach of privilege is involved. My role is limited to determining whether there appears to be a prima facie case. It is not for me to decide whether there has in fact been a breach of the Senate's privileges. If, however, I do determine that there is a prima facie case, then the Senate must resolve how it will dispose of the matter. If the Senate also agrees that the issue might constitute a question of privilege, a motion is usually adopted to refer the matter to the Committee on Privileges, Standing Rules and Orders.

Based on several recent precedents, including the decision by the Speaker of October 13, 1999 dealing with the premature disclosure of a draft report of the Aboriginal Peoples Committee, and on the incontrovertible evidence provided by the journalist who wrote yesterday's newspaper story, I rule that a prima facie case of a question of privilege has been made. The matter should be put before the Senate for its determination. Senator Tkachuk you may now proceed. The Honourable Senator Tkachuk moved, seconded by the Honourable Senator Atkins:

That the question of privilege concerning the unauthorized release of the Fifth Report of the Standing Senate Committee on Banking, Trade and Commerce be referred to the Standing Committee on Privileges, Standing Rules and Orders.

The question being put on the motion, it was adopted.

MOTIONS

The Honourable Senator Finnerty for the Honourable Senator Spivak moved, seconded by the Honourable Senator Christensen:

That the Standing Senate Committee on Energy, the Environment, and Natural Resources have power to sit at 5:00 p.m. on Tuesday, May 9, 2000, for the purpose of hearing witnesses on its special study, even though the Senate may then be sitting and that Rule 95(4) be suspended in relation thereto.

After debate, The question being put on the motion, it was adopted.

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With leave, The Senate reverted to Government Notices of Motions.

With leave of the Senate, The Honourable Senator Hays moved, seconded by the Honourable Senator Graham, P.C.:

That when the Senate adjourns today, it do stand adjourned until Tuesday next, May 9, 2000, at 2:00 p.m.

The question being put on the motion, it was adopted.

REPORTS DEPOSITED WITH THE CLERK OF THE SENATE PURSUANT TO RULE 28(2):

Report of the Canadian Turkey Marketing Agency, together with the Auditors' Report, for the year ended December 31, 1999, pursuant to the Farm Products Marketing Agencies Act, R.S.C. 1985, c. F-4, s. 30.-Sessional Paper No. 2/36-342.

Report of the Canadian Broiler Hatching Egg Marketing Agency, together with the Auditors' Report, for the year ended December 31, 1999, pursuant to the Farm Products Marketing Agencies Act, R.S.C. 1985, c. F-4, s. 30.-Sessional Paper No. 2/36-343.

Report of the Canadian Egg Marketing Agency, together with the Auditors' Report, for the year ended December 31, 1999, pursuant to the Farm Products Marketing Agencies Act, R.S.C. 1985, c.. F-4, s. 30.-Sessional Paper No. 2/36-344.

Report of the Chicken Farmers of Canada, together with the Auditors' Report, for the year ended December 31, 1999, pursuant to the Farm Products Marketing Agencies Act, R.S.C. 1985, c. F-4, s. 30.-Sessional Paper No. 2/36-345.

ADJOURNMENT

The Honourable Senator Hays moved, seconded by the Honourable Senator Graham, P.C.:

That the Senate do now adjourn.

The question being put on the motion, it was adopted.

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Changes in Membership of Committees Pursuant to Rule 85(4)

Standing Senate Committee on Transport and Communications

The name of the Honourable Senator Callbeck substituted for that of the Honourable Senator De Bané (May 3).

Standing Senate Committee on Social Affairs, Science and Technology

The names of the Honourable Senators Meighen, Atkins and Pépin substituted for those of the Honourable Senators Beaudoin, LeBreton and Milne (May 4).

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